How To Better Anything

Discussion in 'Advanced Tricks' started by Zkhan, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. shawkie

    shawkie Old-Timer

    you dont master a trick until youre able to teach it to someone
    Boto and OPdelivers like this.
  2. kuro

    kuro bringer of death

    Sometimes practising the same thing a thousand times is not going to make you better, you have to know what your mistakes are and how to fix them, good habits to make, etc... Just make sure you have the right technique otherwise you could practice a trick for months and not get better cause your repeating a trick wrong (sorry if this was already said)
    Boto likes this.
  3. Plexus

    Plexus Member

    Anyone got any tips for pun new (aka palm spin to inverse fl around). I currently trying to learn on my index finger but when ever I finish the index around it ends up slipping off my hand.
    Boto likes this.
  4. m1ch1

    m1ch1 not gonna die Staff Member Retired Moderator

    i think it is usefull if you already kann do a flta > palmspin cont. so you get the handmotion
    Boto likes this.
  5. kuro

    kuro bringer of death

    how could you improve execution, my fs is kinda rough and not really smooth T.T
    Boto likes this.
  6. Monk

    Monk red light district Staff Member Moderator

    Boto likes this.
  7. OPdelivers

    OPdelivers Old-Timer

    Boto and Selefere like this.
  8. Inev

    Inev meme academic uwu

    Okay so I'm working on refinement right now and I wanna imitate Sponges arounds, right now I'm struggling with [TF Charge Rev > Rev FL TA]



    My attempt
    From what I can tell, you need to fan out your fingers and minimize on time with FL TA to show off the TF Charge.
    I'm struggling with 2 aspects
    1. Making the transition from PD to PS look good
    2. Making the FL TA less obvious in order to show off the TF charge
    If you can help with these issues, I'd appreciate, ty.
    what if me trying to improve rather than bitching about my style being shit or shitting the place up is the greatest shitpost of my career?
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
    Boto and Raiz like this.
  9. mango

    mango rasengan Staff Member Beta-Moderator

    do you have instagram? ill share my thoughts on how to improve ps in general
    Boto likes this.
  10. Instinct

    Instinct Old-Timer

    Yeah, it's kinda weird; a while ago I did my first Twisted Sonic Bust while looking outside and not focusing on the pen at all.
  11. Rodi

    Rodi Old-Timer

    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  12. Rodi

    Rodi Old-Timer

    A wall of text, about the relationship of rotation, angle and power and learning. And how do they work.
    Learning Power Tricks (Hypothesis):
    In-terms of power tricks, aerials or anything with high execution it is always good to keep a fixed amount of rotation/angle/power memorized.
    The goal to learning a trick is not by grinding until you get it, but memorizing the RAP (rotation, angle and power) by a consistent value. (with adjustment and relative memorization)

    That's why if you watch any WR of Power Tricks and Aerials you will see that it plays like a looped-gif, or like it's just repeating over and over again. The main philosophy that is "if you can do it twice, you can do it infinitely as many", this is exaggerated but it still holds truth. As any time, RAP might reduce from a single mistake and carry on to the next few rotations and eventually fail, these mistakes are recognizable by the experienced spinner, similarly to how an intermediate spinner can understand when they did a thumbaround but accidentally pushed it too weak.

    The margin of error sets the standard of difficulty a trick can have, for example in Palm Spin ~ FL TA (The one which I am learning) if you make a mistake, say by misplacing your thumb and hitting the center for a thumbaround leading to the palm spin, then your Rotation and Power would reduce, causing your next palm spin either to fail, or to fail right after doing another.

    Even though there are tricks that has an 'apparent' high margin of error, its abstract value is still deducible by the tricks recoverability (psuedo-engrish ._.).

    Recoverability can be analyzed by: Space - The amount of space you need, the amount of space you can move and control. Effort Precision - The precise (not great) amount of work it needs to produce the correct RAP.
    Better explained this way:
    Let's compare the recoverability of: (1) Spread Cont. (2) Curled Spread Cont.
    (1) the amount of space you need for Spread Cont. is as big as your pinky finger, plus your third knuckle (ring finger) counts as a space. The amount of Effort Precision it takes for a spread cont. is VERY LOW. You can hit it with say a specific amount of force and going way over that specific amount of force will not lessen your recoverability so much.
    (2) the amount of space you need for Spread Cont. is very small (i can't do it, and I'm guessing it's in INCHES), the Effort Precision is VERY GREAT, according to @i.suk you will have to use the tip of the knuckle to create a specific amount of RAP, talk about a small space even getting smaller in its Rotation phase.

    Point made, now I can bluntly say:
    (1) Spread Cont. [Wide Range of Space, High Recoverability] - Easy
    (2) Curled Spread Cont. [Miniscule Range of Space, Almost No Recoverability] - Extremely Difficult

    Another issue, with learning is that recoverability must be memorized too. If you want to become more stable, having a fixed amount of RAP will allow you to become consistent in large numbers, but you must also memorize recoverability - That is by taking advantage of the amount of space you have, and what amount of power goes in to what part of space. (Palmspin has a lot of space, and Peem usually shuffles from the center to the inner-right side of his palm, which means he actually recovers a lot). If you memorize recoverability, it will lessen your "critical mistakes" and allow you to go further.

    Edit: Jan 23, 2018 This is all BULLSHIT thanks for reading tho... kekekek
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  13. i.suk

    i.suk ordinary powertricker

    @Sir Jasmin to summarise your entire post in 1 line: 'margin of error' or 'precision' is main factor influencing amount of practice needed, which is the definition of difficulty

    also, curled finger spread, higher level fl, and some harder linkages have precision in < 5mm, because COP being off by a few mm; or timing off by 0.05 sec will lead to guaranteed drop

    standard rotation speed for cont is ~ 150 rotations in 1 minute, 0.05 sec = 1/8th rotation (pen is in entirely wrong position, 1/8th rotation is pretty huge error)
    Rodi likes this.
  14. CJCC48

    CJCC48 Member

    I seem to be stuck in my spinning now for a month. I haven’t been able to learn any new tricks besides hybrids of tricks I already know. Also, my combos are very stale and are almost exactly alike with only subtle differences. What can I do to improve? I know the fundamentals, most sonic variants, busts and arounds. As well and shadow in most slots.
  15. coffeelucky

    coffeelucky pen all-rounder

    Watch other people combos, Collabs, and Solos. Find the combo or linkages you like and try to copy it. If you have your role idol or favorite spinner, it's time to copy him/her.
    Some channels (like AREZERT) are good places for watching Solos
  16. Aeoluz

    Aeoluz Old-Timer

    Double bust help, i cant do a twisted sonic bust but after the first bust i screw up really bad, i try to use the techniques like jerking your hand upwards slightly and pushing the pen slightly using your middle finger, but it either ends up stopping the pen completely or sending it flying across the room.

    I can do it sometimes, but its mostly luck. Should i just keep on trying and trying?
  17. wings

    wings Member

    How do u combo without doing counter revolution too much? I notice that i do a lot of counters so it makes my spinning look inconsistent, e.g. twisted sanic to sanic rev, then i do a thumbaround into a bak, see? Too much counter revolution this is driving me nuts. I wanna be like anorexic zkhan, the combo vid he posted, thats what i think my ideal combo should look like.

    Also how do you prep your combo into doing arounds palm up? I see a lot of japanese pen spinners do that easy as pie while mine just get stuck so i habe no choice but to do a counter revolution lol
  18. Rodi

    Rodi Old-Timer

    If you want to have more variety, you need to learn more tricks in the same direction, also if you wanna pu ar in combos just practice it.

    Training FL is all about progress, even if you understand the motion it doesn't necessarily mean you can do it, your body needs to understand as well, all you need to do is grind it until you figure out the timing, sooner or later you'll get x10.

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