UPSB Wiki Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anemia, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    I find it weird to include terms that are not modifiers in the modifier page. I'm suggesting either creating individual pages for spin direction and such or to rename the page into something like "trick describing terms". What do you think?
     
  2. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    upload_2017-1-31_15-24-38.png
    upload_2017-1-31_15-27-28.png
    Clearly someone's added shit thats fuckin been removed from there previously for not being modifiers.
     

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  3. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    Huh looking back at the history it appears that I removed "Neo" then added it again like two edits later : P . Anyway I agree with Nickle that it would be good to have most of these descriptive terms on one page to reduce the need to click a bunch of pages (all the terms can be overwhelming for beginners researching the Wiki and needing to open like 5 tabs to comprehend an article (minor exaggeration)). Perhaps make the page titled "Naming descriptions" or "Naming conventions"? ("naming conventions" makes it sound like the breakdown articles though). Or maybe "Trick terms" or "Naming terms" or "Trick naming terms"...?
     
  4. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    So youre saying a we need well written well thought out introduction that goes over every topic in a way that teaches beginners about pen spinning and the terminology on a fairly basic easy to understand level that also has links to where they can read more about each thing and expand their knowledge that would take some poor fucker hours to research, write up, and format only to HAVE IT ALL FUCKING LOST WITH THE REST OF THE FUCKING FORUM AND WIKI.

    What I'm saying is that we probably wouldnt need a naming page thingo like you're talking about and just a proper introduction page like what I previously wrote only to have it all lost and now I seriously cannot be fucked going to the effort of writing it all up again and formatting it in wiki markup now that I have fuck all free time with full time work and the wonderful hobby of touge that I literally spend 90% of my free time doing.
     
  5. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    I think I understand how you mean, correct me if I'm wrong. you want to expand the introduction page quite a lot and make it cover all areas of ps, and thus lessen the need of other pages being beginner friendly. that would allow us to shorten other pages, removing the very basic information, and make the wiki better for advanced spinners. beginner spinners would need to actually read the intro page before using the wiki properly.

    @Green Caffeine's idea seem to be to make all pages contain more basic information and descriptions about the topic of the page in order to make them easier for beginners to understand. this would lessen the need of an elaborated intro page but other pages would have to be more elaborated.

    "advanced spinners" meaning people with basic knowledge about the topic the wiki page describes, "beginners" meaning people without such knowledge.
     
    Fraction likes this.
  6. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    @Fraction @Nickle
    Expanding the current introduction page to cover some more basic material seems like a good idea. However, my post about renaming the current Modifier page to justify the other terms on the page was more about ease of use for the Wiki, as having a bunch of pages for similar terms is not good design, even if there is some sort of category page linking to all of them. For example, I grouped the Around type tricks all into one Arounds page and cleared the Around category, because most of the previous pages were short with only small amount of info and some unclear written tutorials (which are immensely inferior compared to external links to YouTube tutorials). Now a user can simply scroll through the Arounds page without have to go to a category page and clicking all the links to separate pages that they are curious about.

    What I'm trying to say is that it's generally easier to have related terms that would only have short pages all grouped onto one main page, whether there is a good introductory page or not. This is why all the modifiers are on one page in the first place yeah? If we can expand on some of the terms, like spin direction which is definitely expandable to point, then sure they should have separate pages. Stuff like "Neo" and "Fake" can't really be expanded into long articles though, unless they were grouped into a page like "Historical naming" (which did exist on the past wiki but was mostly about hybrid naming), but then again they could still just be on the Modifiers page (or whatever the page's name could be) And what about other small terms like "2p2h"? I guess they could be mentioned elsewhere across the Wiki without their own section or page. I dunno, what do you think about this situation? Short pages aren't inherently bad but when there are a lot of them for related terms they become a drag.

    Also if a Wiki page doesn't seem available on the Wayback archive, you can try adding &action=edit to the end of the URL because sometimes the source pages have been archived but the read pages have not. You may know this already but it could be helpful if you want to view the past Wiki.
     
    Fraction likes this.
  7. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    or, when having multiple smaller pages, you could add a "see also" at the end of the pages. if it's difficult to come up with a common title for the topics handled considering splitting the page up into smaller ones might be a good idea. for example: the "modifier" page is describing many non-modifier terms and could therefore be considered to need a new title. I can't come up with a good title, and I've never seen anyone used descriptions like "trick naming terms" before
     
  8. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    @Fraction (and Nickle)
    I'm thinking just renaming the section titled "Other terms" to "False modifiers", and keep only terms that truly seem like modifiers. This means in the section there will be Neo, Fake, and Extended (and any more false modifiers I can think of). Moonwalk might be moved up to the "List of modifiers" section because it is a real modifier; it's just one that has been formally deprecated but is still useful for informal/quick notation situations. Rise/fall, Normal, Reverse, and Harmonic can go on some other more appropriate page. Thoughts?

    EDIT: Also I'd like to bring up the issue of citations for historical information. I don't think a full system like Wikipedia has is necessary, and putting all the related links in an External Links section would make the sections long. I'm thinking we could just make a section on the Discussion tab of articles with links to pages we used as sources for the historical information. In a perfect world, these references would not be needed, but in case anybody doesn't fully trust the Wiki, they can at least check the sources.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
  9. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    I think you're both overthinking it a lil, all of the things on the page that are not modifiers have a place on pages. That is, spin direction belongs on a notation page, and harmonic and rise/fall belong on the combos page as they are names for specific types of combos.
    There should not be small things like those that don't fit into one of the main parts of pen spinning. The main parts being, tricks, links & combos, pens & modding, notation, and past and present events and happenings in spinning.

    I'd say move Moonwalk to the subheading "Depreciated terms", and move neo, fake, and extended to false modifiers like you said.
     
  10. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    this is good. I agree with those being the main parts of the wiki, along with information about people/groups. I had also overlooked the possibility that there are other pages that those smaller things fit better on.

    however, if modifiers get their own page doesn't spin direction deserve its own page as well? I think the two topics are similar and I don't know which notation pages you would want to merge their pages with. I also don't quite understand what the combos page is about.
     
  11. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    Thats true, I quite like how the formatting of my notation post on the forum is layed out, maybe it'd be worth me trying to translate that information directly over in a similar format.
     
  12. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    @Zkhan @Fraction @Anemia @Lost ANGELUS

    Is there a particular reason why we still do the math sum before publishing our edits? Since self-registration is closed, I think no bots would be able to publish spam edits right? Or were you guys hoping to open self-registration again and leave the math sum, which is perhaps enough to stop bots? I dunno. Just wondering because the sum is a minor nuisance. If you don't want to remove it though that's fine.
     
  13. Zkhan

    Zkhan Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    I've never noticed that. It's probably an alert mechanism tied to the user action log. Doesn't seem like that much of a nuisance.
     

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