UPSB Wiki Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anemia, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    I find it weird to include terms that are not modifiers in the modifier page. I'm suggesting either creating individual pages for spin direction and such or to rename the page into something like "trick describing terms". What do you think?
     
  2. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    upload_2017-1-31_15-24-38.png
    upload_2017-1-31_15-27-28.png
    Clearly someone's added shit thats fuckin been removed from there previously for not being modifiers.
     

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  3. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    Huh looking back at the history it appears that I removed "Neo" then added it again like two edits later : P . Anyway I agree with Nickle that it would be good to have most of these descriptive terms on one page to reduce the need to click a bunch of pages (all the terms can be overwhelming for beginners researching the Wiki and needing to open like 5 tabs to comprehend an article (minor exaggeration)). Perhaps make the page titled "Naming descriptions" or "Naming conventions"? ("naming conventions" makes it sound like the breakdown articles though). Or maybe "Trick terms" or "Naming terms" or "Trick naming terms"...?
     
  4. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    So youre saying a we need well written well thought out introduction that goes over every topic in a way that teaches beginners about pen spinning and the terminology on a fairly basic easy to understand level that also has links to where they can read more about each thing and expand their knowledge that would take some poor fucker hours to research, write up, and format only to HAVE IT ALL FUCKING LOST WITH THE REST OF THE FUCKING FORUM AND WIKI.

    What I'm saying is that we probably wouldnt need a naming page thingo like you're talking about and just a proper introduction page like what I previously wrote only to have it all lost and now I seriously cannot be fucked going to the effort of writing it all up again and formatting it in wiki markup now that I have fuck all free time with full time work and the wonderful hobby of touge that I literally spend 90% of my free time doing.
     
  5. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    I think I understand how you mean, correct me if I'm wrong. you want to expand the introduction page quite a lot and make it cover all areas of ps, and thus lessen the need of other pages being beginner friendly. that would allow us to shorten other pages, removing the very basic information, and make the wiki better for advanced spinners. beginner spinners would need to actually read the intro page before using the wiki properly.

    @Green Caffeine's idea seem to be to make all pages contain more basic information and descriptions about the topic of the page in order to make them easier for beginners to understand. this would lessen the need of an elaborated intro page but other pages would have to be more elaborated.

    "advanced spinners" meaning people with basic knowledge about the topic the wiki page describes, "beginners" meaning people without such knowledge.
     
    Fraction likes this.
  6. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    @Fraction @Nickle
    Expanding the current introduction page to cover some more basic material seems like a good idea. However, my post about renaming the current Modifier page to justify the other terms on the page was more about ease of use for the Wiki, as having a bunch of pages for similar terms is not good design, even if there is some sort of category page linking to all of them. For example, I grouped the Around type tricks all into one Arounds page and cleared the Around category, because most of the previous pages were short with only small amount of info and some unclear written tutorials (which are immensely inferior compared to external links to YouTube tutorials). Now a user can simply scroll through the Arounds page without have to go to a category page and clicking all the links to separate pages that they are curious about.

    What I'm trying to say is that it's generally easier to have related terms that would only have short pages all grouped onto one main page, whether there is a good introductory page or not. This is why all the modifiers are on one page in the first place yeah? If we can expand on some of the terms, like spin direction which is definitely expandable to point, then sure they should have separate pages. Stuff like "Neo" and "Fake" can't really be expanded into long articles though, unless they were grouped into a page like "Historical naming" (which did exist on the past wiki but was mostly about hybrid naming), but then again they could still just be on the Modifiers page (or whatever the page's name could be) And what about other small terms like "2p2h"? I guess they could be mentioned elsewhere across the Wiki without their own section or page. I dunno, what do you think about this situation? Short pages aren't inherently bad but when there are a lot of them for related terms they become a drag.

    Also if a Wiki page doesn't seem available on the Wayback archive, you can try adding &action=edit to the end of the URL because sometimes the source pages have been archived but the read pages have not. You may know this already but it could be helpful if you want to view the past Wiki.
     
    Fraction likes this.
  7. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    or, when having multiple smaller pages, you could add a "see also" at the end of the pages. if it's difficult to come up with a common title for the topics handled considering splitting the page up into smaller ones might be a good idea. for example: the "modifier" page is describing many non-modifier terms and could therefore be considered to need a new title. I can't come up with a good title, and I've never seen anyone used descriptions like "trick naming terms" before
     
  8. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    @Fraction (and Nickle)
    I'm thinking just renaming the section titled "Other terms" to "False modifiers", and keep only terms that truly seem like modifiers. This means in the section there will be Neo, Fake, and Extended (and any more false modifiers I can think of). Moonwalk might be moved up to the "List of modifiers" section because it is a real modifier; it's just one that has been formally deprecated but is still useful for informal/quick notation situations. Rise/fall, Normal, Reverse, and Harmonic can go on some other more appropriate page. Thoughts?

    EDIT: Also I'd like to bring up the issue of citations for historical information. I don't think a full system like Wikipedia has is necessary, and putting all the related links in an External Links section would make the sections long. I'm thinking we could just make a section on the Discussion tab of articles with links to pages we used as sources for the historical information. In a perfect world, these references would not be needed, but in case anybody doesn't fully trust the Wiki, they can at least check the sources.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
  9. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    I think you're both overthinking it a lil, all of the things on the page that are not modifiers have a place on pages. That is, spin direction belongs on a notation page, and harmonic and rise/fall belong on the combos page as they are names for specific types of combos.
    There should not be small things like those that don't fit into one of the main parts of pen spinning. The main parts being, tricks, links & combos, pens & modding, notation, and past and present events and happenings in spinning.

    I'd say move Moonwalk to the subheading "Depreciated terms", and move neo, fake, and extended to false modifiers like you said.
     
  10. Nickle

    Nickle Old-Timer

    this is good. I agree with those being the main parts of the wiki, along with information about people/groups. I had also overlooked the possibility that there are other pages that those smaller things fit better on.

    however, if modifiers get their own page doesn't spin direction deserve its own page as well? I think the two topics are similar and I don't know which notation pages you would want to merge their pages with. I also don't quite understand what the combos page is about.
     
  11. Fraction

    Fraction Stop

    Thats true, I quite like how the formatting of my notation post on the forum is layed out, maybe it'd be worth me trying to translate that information directly over in a similar format.
     
  12. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    @Zkhan @Fraction @Anemia @Lost ANGELUS

    Is there a particular reason why we still do the math sum before publishing our edits? Since self-registration is closed, I think no bots would be able to publish spam edits right? Or were you guys hoping to open self-registration again and leave the math sum, which is perhaps enough to stop bots? I dunno. Just wondering because the sum is a minor nuisance. If you don't want to remove it though that's fine.
     
  13. Zkhan

    Zkhan Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    I've never noticed that. It's probably an alert mechanism tied to the user action log. Doesn't seem like that much of a nuisance.
     
  14. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    Yo I think I'm going to change "Category:⁠Pen Spinning Communities" to just "Category:Communities". There is no need for the "Pen Spinning" prefix because it is a pen spinning wiki only, and the long name makes it a drag to link to when editing articles. It will only take like 10 minutes to transfer all the community articles to the renamed category. If no one rejects this proposal within 3 days, then I will go ahead and do it.
     
    Fraction likes this.
  15. Instinct

    Instinct Old-Timer

    I'm thinking of starting a section of the UPSB Wiki that is dedicated to teams and team discussion. I feel that teams don't get enough attention and that part of the wiki should have its attention towards teams. What I was thinking was that any team that wants to have their own wiki page can make it, and I've already made a template for them: http://www.upsb.info/wiki/index.php?title=Instinct's_Template If you don't like this idea, go ahead and remove the page. The main point of this was so that people could learn more about teams and if they want to join a specific one later on.
     
  16. shadrcom3t

    shadrcom3t Old-Timer

    Updates and Changelog 5/17 (mostly pen articles):

    -updated Keityo page with barrel masses (weight) and barrel lengths
    -updated Alpha Gel article with pics and more info. still needs more info ._. Shout out to Green who took care of this better than I could lol
    -added HGR info

    The following may need more info (I already added as many stats/historical info as I could):
    -added Reimei article
    -added Rikota article
    -added Bellcolor article
    -added Metallic Gel article
    -updated the Needle Point article
    -updated the Playcolor2 article
    -added Fude Pen article
    -added a Tulip Fabric Marker Article
    -added a Kearing article (because a lot of people have trouble using Kearings)
    -added Muji Hex article
    -added Airblanc article
    -added Flexigrip article
    -added Tul Mechanical Pencil article
    -added Poppin article (you will need a poppin brand article as well)


    Suggestions:
    >Break up Hybrid into HGG and HGR, as I feel that HGRs are very different from HGGs. Same with DXs. They can be divided into subsections in the statistics section (one section HGG Stats, one with HGR stats, etc.) noting the differences, or separating the sections entirely into HGG and HGR in the article. Hybrid is a really broad category when you put all the stats together, especially HGRs.

    >I feel the same with the Signo article, as Signos usually refer to the small metal tips (capped signos). Signo RTs should be a separate article to avoid confusion, but it does make sense to lump them together as well.
     
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  17. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    The reason they were grouped together was actually an attempt to decrease confusion and increase the clarity of reading the Wiki. I think much of the info about important pens in a series (almost always just one or two models in a series, such as Hybrid, are actually modded) can be explained in the top of the article in one or two paragraphs, maybe three if you wanna put some historical info in there. Making separate pages would create a lot of clicking for readers when instead they could just read all the info they need on one, cohesive, uniform article The reasoning for this is extended from here: http://www.upsb.info/xforum/index.php?threads/upsb-wiki-discussion.1816/#post-43594 Although if people agree with your suggestion then sure we can do it.

    EDIT: I think I misinterpreted your post! You aren't saying that the pen articles need to be broken into separate pages. You are just saying we should make separate sections within the same page to go into detail regarding the important models. This could work. I'll post more about this tomorrow cuz I gotta go sleep now
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
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  18. shadrcom3t

    shadrcom3t Old-Timer

    Muh b yeah I pretty much meant that with the Hybrid article (I just mentioned the separate pages thing if you guys would think that was better if it was better). I just wanted to make sure the statistics were grouped accordingly in those articles (Signo and Hybrid) more than dividing up the articles into separate pages.

    Edit: wow I just restated what you said. smh I guess I'm sleepy.
    (also rip the bedtime/snoring emoji can't find it for my life)
     
  19. Green Caffeine

    Green Caffeine Old-Timer

    So after some thought, I think the best option would be to simply explain each major model used for modding in their own paragraphs at the top of a pen article. Of course, this would not be an unbreakable rule, because if there just isn't much to say, then the paragraphs can be combined. The statistics are already pretty organized; were you thinking of dividing statistics by separate pens, rather than listing the models' statistics under Tip, Grip, Barrel, etc.? I think whatever works best for the articles is the best. Like for some articles having dividing the statistic info up by pen instead of pen part could make the section too big I think but I'm not sure. What do you think?
    :sofa: :? "hmm where are they..."

    :sleeping: :⁠sleeping⁠: :zzz: :⁠zzz⁠:
     
  20. shadrcom3t

    shadrcom3t Old-Timer

    Yup! Pretty much what you said: explain every major model in one sentence and keep everything to one paragraph. For larger series, I think there should be separate paragraphs in the intro, like in larger wikis, if you wanna add more info about manufacturing, history, etc. (history is probably the part I actually read tho tbh). No need for separate sections for History and such.

    Definitely tell everyone what the models are off the bat so they are aware of what types exist (especially for Hybrids and Signos).

    Here's what I was thinking for the stats parts. From what I remember, I feel the statistics should be broken up like this in Hybrid:
    • Hybrid Gel Grip
      • Tip
        • Weight
        • Weight (Penwish)
        • Length
      • Grip
        • Weight
        • Weight (Penwish)
        • Length
    • Hybrid Gel Roller
      • Tip
        • Weight
        • Weight (KzPSC)
        • Length
      • Grip
        • Weight
        • Length
    • Hybrid Gel DX.... etc.

    That way people can just jump to the section they need info from, instead of going to "tip section" then "look for hybrid gel grip" and then go to "grip section" and look for "hybrid gel grip" again. It's just a slight clarification (and takes a bit more work), but would help people who need the info. This will also help for pens that have multiple versions or "fakes" (such as Penwish HGG tips and KzPSC HGR tips).

    In smaller articles, this sorting is unnecessary since it's only one pen and a few versions. I definitely want to edit the Color Twin article, for example, to have the KzPSC fakes, but the sections should still be "barrel," "tip," etc. even with the KzPSC version.

    Dr. Grips might be a little tricky. Stats should be split up based on ball point, pencil, and shaker. HOWEVER I don't think the different types of Shakers, i.e. French and Jap, should be divided into separate sections. COG/G-Spec should also have separate stats (if anyone has those). You can modify this as you see fit

    I think that's about it. Lemme know if this format makes sense or if I'm just going into semantics again lol

    ty bby I was looking for the one with a sleepy hat but sleeping works enough for me :sleeping:
     

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